Category: Laurence Decore

Alberta’s Great Family Day Debate of 1989.

Post author By Dave Cournoyer
Post date February 16, 2010
15 Comments on Alberta’s Great Family Day Debate of 1989.

Don Getty Ray Martin Laurence Decore Alberta Family Day Debate — Don Getty, Ray Martin and Laurence Decore.

The annual Family Day long-weekend is something that many Albertans look forward to. The many Albertans who take for granted the holiday on the third Monday of February may be surprised to know that the idea of creating Family Day was incredibly controversial when it was first introduced in 1989. It may be his greatest legacy as Premier, but when Don Getty introduced the Family Day Act on June 1, 1989, it generated some intense debate on the floor of the Legislative Assembly. Here are some quotes from the debate, care of Hansard:

June 5, 1989
Laurence Decore (Liberal MLA Edmonton-Glengarry): “It seems to me that when your province is in difficulty, when you know that you’re going to be experiencing the lowest economic growth rate in Canada, something should be brought forward to excite and energize and stimulate Albertans. The family day Act doesn’t do that.”

June 6, 1989
Kurt Gesell (PC MLA Clover Bar): “The promise of the throne speech of love of family, home, community, and province facilitates these choices. The family day Act is an excellent start, and forms part of the measures stressing the importance of Alberta families. I want to applaud our Premier for the introduction of this initiative.”

June 7, 1989

Don Tannas (PC MLA Highwood): “Government alone cannot create a true family day. It can merely provide the opportunity for others to make it a family time, and therefore it is an important step to bring focus to the fundamental importance of the family, through family day. Many of our Christian denominations emphasize having at least one day a week devoted to family activities. A family day once a year provides an ideal opportunity for all families to focus on themselves, to look at reconciling their differences, to take joy in their common ancestry, to participate in shared activities, and to focus on all the members of their extended family on a day other than a family funeral. No, Mr. Speaker, a government cannot do it by itself. Family day must grow in the hearts and minds of all Albertans, and I’m proud that this government has taken this important step.”

June 8, 1989
Ray Martin (NDP MLA Edmonton-Norwood): “I’ll stand up in the Legislature and give them credit if it’s anything close to what we’re doing in Bill 201. I point out that just like your so-called family day, Mr. Speaker — I recall them running that Bill down, but then for once they did the right thing and brought it in, the midwinter holiday. So I’m hopeful after the eighth try that they might take a look at a Bill like that. Again, government members, if you don’t understand the problem and you think everything’s okay, you’re just not listening to the public.”

June 19, 1989
Norm Weiss (PC MLA Fort McMurray): “I hope we’d see such things as family cards for family days, as we see for Valentine Day and Father’s Day and Mother’s Day and instances like that.”

Bettie Hewes (Liberal MLA Edmonton-Gold Bar): “We still are beset with runaways, with dropouts, with an increase in teenage pregnancy. Yet it doesn’t seem to me our Family Day will in any way help those problems that are a consistent source of stress in family life in Alberta and an increasing source of stress. Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier and the members of the Legislature what Family Day will do to alleviate the need for respite for young families who’ve been encouraged to keep mentally or physically handicapped children at home.” … “This government’s commitment to strengthen family life has yet to materialize. With regret, Mr. Speaker, this particular family Act doesn’t accomplish it in any way.”

Derek Fox (NDP MLA Vegreville): “It’s not enough to pay lip service to the family in Alberta, just to say, “Well, we love the family; therefore, everything’s going to be wonderful for families in Alberta” or “We’re going to name a holiday Family Day, and everything will be wonder- ful for families in Alberta.””

Don Getty (PC MLA Stettler): “The members opposite from the Liberal and ND parties are surely a hesitant, fearful, timid group, unable to bring themselves to look at something in a positive way. I guess they’ve been in the opposition that long that they just can’t turn around their minds in a positive, thoughtful way and think of the kinds of things they could have raised to support Family Day and talk about the exciting things that will happen in the future in Alberta on Family Day. Instead we heard a series of complaints and fears, and that’s really sad.”

“We will have this thinking of Family Day, thinking of the importance of the family. Both the NDP and the Liberal members said: will people participate; will they actually get together as families? Their view is: force them to; use state control in some way. Force litem to. Make it the law that you’ve got to get together. Now, what kind of nonsense is that? Surely that’s the kind of centralist, socialist thinking that is so wrong and the reason why they’re where they are, Mr. Speaker.”

Marie Laing (NDP MLA Edmonton-Avonmore): “…all too often the member of that family that is forced to work is the mother or the woman, because they are employed in the retail trade. So we have to say: what kind of a Family Day do you have when the mother has to be at work and cannot be with her family?”

August 10, 1989
Mr. Weiss: “…the proposed amendment, as introduced by the hon member, certainly would create chaos. She went on to say, and I quote how would it help battered women, those sexually abused? I would like to say to all hon members of the Assembly that I really don’t know. Does any body know? But maybe just the reality of knowing one day has been designated as Family Day will shock both sides of a broken family into the realities that there are problems in this world, and as a realist we don’t run from them, we try and work towards improving them and bettering them from all sides It’s not just “empty rhetoric” as quoted by the hon member.”

Mr. Decore: “It is that not everybody is allowed to celebrate the holiday. The moms and the dads and the grandmothers and the grandfathers and the uncles and the aunts and the children aren’t able, many of them, to come back to that family unit to participate in that Family Day. Therefore, the Act isn’t fair; it isn’t fair to the thousands of people who must work.”

Bob-Hawkesworth-Alberta-MLA — Bob Hawkesworth

Bob Hawkesworth (NDP MLA Calgary-Mountain View): “…it’s really a shame to me that they would miss the real opportunity that this Bill could provide to create a genuine Family Day, not just some bogus, poor substitute for something that we once had once a week in this province. It’s a shame to me and a tragedy to me that this government over the years has failed to act in this important way. I think it’s highly regrettable. Here is some small
way that they could rectify an injustice.”

August 15, 1989
Mr. Getty: “…the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre [editor’s note: the MLA at the time was William Roberts] has such a hesitant, fearful, timid view of the capacity of the people of Alberta that he would want in some way to pass legislation that forces people to do certain things. It’s the socialist, state-control thought, and it’s wrong. It has been wrong in the past, and it’s wrong now. You have to have faith in the people of the province that they will develop this family day, that they will work. The government merely provides the framework; it’s the people who do it. It’s not people against their employers. Surely they’re all the people of Alberta. They work together, and together they’re going to develop family day. I know that someday in the future that poor, timid, hesitant Edmonton-Centre MLA, wherever he will be in those days, probably . . . Well, no, I won’t even speculate, because we’d probably have to help him to the food bank.”

February 1, 1990
Calgary Herald columnist Don Braid wrote about the first Family Day: “The premier failed to consider a few realities of modern family life – little things like children, work, school and day care. These matters refuse to vanish just because the couch potatoes in the legislature want another holiday and the premier waves his wand.”

Bill Smith Curtis Gillespie Jan Reimer Laurence Decore Michael Phair Patricia Misutka Ralph Klein

macewan university – the future of story conference & alberta’s political narrative.

Post author By Dave Cournoyer
Post date February 8, 2010
1 Comment on macewan university – the future of story conference & alberta’s political narrative.

I had a great time participating in the Future of Story Conference organized by MacEwan University‘s School of Communications this weekend (you can read tweets from participants at #futureofstory). I was lucky to be invited to join a panel discussion focusing on “the political narrative” that was led by writer Curtis Gillespie and included panelists Michael Phair (Edmonton City Councillor from 1992 to 2007) and Patricia Misutka (Chief of Staff to Mayor Stephen Mandel). Our discussion topic led to some very interesting conversation about the role (and dangers) of narrative in politics and the differences between narrative, spin, and ideology.

Opening the discussion, I offered my thoughts on how the political narrative and mythology of Alberta has been translated into how Canadians from other provinces see us (a topic that I have recent written about). A sincere glance at our province will make it easy for anyone with common-sense to debunk the myth that Alberta is a cultural, societal, and political monolith.

Michael Phair spoke about the political narrative that dominated the run up to the 1995 municipal election. At the time, it was largely believed that Edmonton was falling behind and needed to elect a new and “business-friendly” Mayor. Two mayoral candidates, including Bill Smith, adopted this narrative as central to their campaigns and in October 1995, he was successful in unseating two-term Mayor Jan Reimer. Upon entering office, Mayor Smith discovered the limitations that municipal governments have to creating immediate economic growth and attracting businesses. This political narrative pigeon-holed Smith, who over his three-terms in office was typecast as solely being the “business Mayor” or “cheerleader” for Edmonton. Mr. Phair pointed out that this narrative overshadowed many of Mayor Smith’s accomplishments – including the leading role he played in ending smoking in bars and restaurants in Edmonton. Interestingly, current Mayor Mandel, who arguably has just as much business background as his predecessor, has successfully avoided being overshadowed by this political narrative.

Patricia Misutka gave a really good example of how the vacuum of leadership from the provincial and federal orders of government has allowed municipalities across the world to become leaders in environmental and sustainability initiatives. Having attended the ICLEI World Congress in Edmonton last summer, I completely agree.

The panel also generated some interesting discussion on the challenges of differentiating political narrative and political ideology. When describing the various political narratives that Alberta’s Progressive Conservative Party has been successful in creating since they were first elected in 1971, a number of audience members pointed out that the root of the political narrative that defined Premier Ralph Klein‘s government was rooted in the ideology of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. I argued that Premier Klein’s decision to embrace a harder-line fiscal conservative agenda was less based on sincere ideology than it was in ideology of convenience. It was pointed out by one of my fellow panelists that the first politician to begin crafting that narrative in Alberta was Liberal leader Laurence Decore. As is fairly well-known in Alberta political circles, Premier Klein understood that Albertans were embracing that narrative and he embraced the idea and branded it as his own. Under this narrative, his party was re-elected in 1993, 1997, and 2001. Arguably, after the deficit and debt has been paid off, Premier Klein’s government drifted through the 2004 “Kleinfeld” election until his retirement in 2006.

One of the biggest challenges facing the government of Premier Ed Stelmach is its lack of defining purpose, or political narrative that Albertans will embrace. In the absence of any dominant narrative, there are a number of citizen groups and political parties competing to craft their own political narratives (or spin) around the upcoming provincial budget, including the Taxpayers federation, Join Together Alberta, the Parkland Institute and the Wildrose Alliance. This weekend, the Manning Centre for Building Democracy hosted a Conference on Alberta’s Future, where among many things, crafting various shades of blue political narratives for our province were discussed (you can read more about it here, here, here, here, and here). In a couple of weeks, citizens involved in Reboot Alberta will gather in Kananaskis to discuss other new ideas in crafting a new political narrative for our province. We are only two months in and 2010 already looks like it is going to be an interesting years for politics in Alberta.

Overall, The Future of Story conference generated some excellent discussion about the future of the craft of storytelling and brought together over 250 interested and passionate storytellers to share their ideas.

Tags Bill Smith, Curtis Gillespie, Jan Reimer, Laurence Decore, Michael Phair, Patricia Misutka, Ralph Klein

Danielle Smith Ed Stelmach Guest Post Laurence Decore

guest post: progressives vs conservatives.

Post author By Dave Cournoyer
Post date January 11, 2010
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I wish to sincerely thank Dave for giving me the chance to post on his blog. I normally write about boring stuff like Alberta’s labour market over in my own blog. Dave is giving me a chance to write about politics, a topic I love but isn’t appropriate in my blog.

Alberta has a reputation of being the most conservative province in the country. Indeed, provincially we have elected a conservative government since the 1930’s and this province has sent many conservative politicians and parties to Ottawa. When it comes to the bluster and rhetoric of the campaign, Alberta’s conservative base tends to dominate. Conservative values tend to appeal to Albertans after dominating the discourse of this province for so long.

But Alberta is also the birth place of the CCF – the forerunner of the NDP – Canada’s left wing party. It was founded in Calgary in 1932. In the 1920’s Alberta, through the United Farmers movement, was responsible for sending ‘Progressives’ to Ottawa and caused probably the biggest constitutional crisis (and huge parliamentry drama) in Canada’s history.

This post is not a history lesson. But the truth is that Alberta does have a number of active ‘progressive’ movements to counterbalance the conservative movements that get elected. While the parties may campaign from the right, they most often govern from the centre.

Much is being made about the ascendency of the Wild Rose Alliance. Indeed, this party probably represents the biggest threat to the governing Conservatives since Laurence Decore and the Liberals forced the Tories to rebrand themselves in 1992. I believe Danielle Smith is doing everything right to unseat the Tories. One of her primary spokespeople is Ernie Isely and his message has recently been that the new party needs to ‘moderate’. Indeed, the two defections this week were not from hard core raging social conservatives but from moderate tories who have problems with Ed Stelmach‘s leadership style and the apparent lack of democracy in their old party.

The ‘progressive’ parties can’t seem to get any traction on Ed or Danielle though. The Liberals can’t seem to shake the ghost of the NEP from 30 years ago and nobody wants to listen to the NDP outside of a few ridings in Edmonton. In my opinion, the problem for the progressive side is leadership. They just cannot get a leader who is articulate in front of the camera and can play the political game. Instead, the Wild Rose elected that very leader and is able to capitlize on the province’s disaffection of the Progressive Conservative Party of Alberta.

So while Danielle says all the right things, the progressives are trying to figure out what the right things are to say. While I agree with the spirit of such movements like Reboot or Renew Alberta, they will not be able to develop a coherant message and organization in time for the 2012 election.

For any Alberta party to be elected they need to build a ‘big tent’ to bring in a wide range of Albertans. If Danielle and the Wild Rose Alliance continue to do everything right, I see this tent collapsing around Ed Stelmach as hard core and moderate conservative alike move to the WIld Rose. I’m afraid that Ed does not have a lot of appeal to many of the progressives still in his party so I see a lot of the ‘red tories’ moving to other parties. Alberta history (and Alberta voters) is not kind to former ruling parties.

It might be too late for the progressives to develop a counter offensive to the momentum already enjoyed by the Wild Rose for 2012. But they can’t lie down and die. I believe that there is support for progressive values in Alberta, if we had the right people and the right organization promoting them. There is nothing in Alberta’s law that says we need to keep electing the same government for 40 years. If Danielle and her party do get elected, they could be unseated. Realistically, I think Albertans give a particular political brand that they have bought into 12 to 15 years before they tire of it. But now is still the time to build up a movement to rival the conservatives in Alberta. But the message needs to be coherant and it needs to come from one organization, not 2 or 3 or 4. If this happens, then hopefully the Wild Rose Alliance isn’t given a mandate to rule Alberta until my own children have children.

Again, I sincerely thank Dave for giving me a chance to post my views here. And if you want to check out my opinions on Alberta’s economy and labour market, check out my blog ‘Gas, Cows and Oilsands – Alberta’s Labour Market?’

—
Jason is a born and raised Albertan. He is currently raising a family in Edmonton. He normally writes on labour market issues at trvhtseeker.blogspot.com.

Don Getty Laurence Decore Linda Duncan Rahim Jaffer Ralph Klein

the top 3 alberta political moments of the decade.

Post author By Dave Cournoyer
Post date December 23, 2009
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The masses have spoken and after 1628 total votes from this blog’s readers, the top political moments of Alberta’s past decade have been chosen. After being chosen from the final group of ten, these three moments made it to the top of the list:

3) 2001: Premier Ralph Klein‘s visit to the Herb Jamieson Centre in Edmonton. Long-known for his enjoyment of alcoholic beverages, Premier Klein’s late night visit that night changed how many Albertans viewed the Premier’s vice. Shelter residents claimed after Premier Klein and his chauffeur stopped in front of the Men’s shelter, the Premier began slurring, swearing, and yelling at the men to get jobs. Witnesses told reporters that Premier Klein then threw money at them. In a statement released soon afterward Premier Klein publicly apologized and declared that he would quit drinking.

2) 2004: Premier Ralph Klein declaring Alberta fiscally debt free, making our province the first debt-free province in a decade would have been my choice for the most important political moment of the decade in Alberta politics. When Premier Klein stood up at his Calgary Stampede breakfast and declared Alberta to be debt free, a major political narrative came to an end this province.

Aiming to defeat the deficit and debt saved the PCs from being unseated by the Liberals in the 1993 election after Laurence Decore used his infamous debt clock to highlight the growing debt and fiscal meanderings of Premier Don Getty‘s administration. This defining narrative changed the landscape of Alberta politics, contributing to the decimation of the NDP in 1993 and the marginalization of the post-Decore Liberal Party. It was the defining theme in Alberta politics in the 1990s and early 2000s. Since Alberta was declared debt free, the PCs now led by Premier Ed Stelmach have struggled to create a compelling narrative for being in government.

If I were to wager, in 30 to 40 years, this moment will be front and centre in Alberta’s history textbooks. As the Chief of Staff to the President of Daveberta wrote in an earlier post, “the language of our elections and our politics is shaped around deficits and spending in a way that isn’t present in other politics.”

1) 2008: While too early to estimate in my opinion, democracy and the readers of this blog have chosen Linda Duncan‘s election victory in Edmonton-Strathcona as Alberta’s top political moment of the decade.

After placing a commanding second in the 2006 election, Duncan challenged the Conservative Party hegemony in Alberta by unseating backbench Conservative MP Rahim Jaffer and becoming the second-ever NDP MP from Alberta in 2008. Duncan’s campaign had momentum from the moment the writ was dropped and drew significant volunteer support from across Edmonton and across party-lines. Duncan also became the first non-PC/Reform/Alliance/Conservative MP to represent Edmonton-Strathcona since Liberal MP Hu Harries was elected in 1968 and the first non-Conservative MP elected in Alberta since 2004.

Since becoming the Federal NDP environment critic in the House of Commons, Duncan has brought a very unique voice to federal politics in Alberta as a vocal critic of current environmental practices in Alberta’s oil sands, a proponent of National Hockey Day, a member of the Canadian delegation at the COP15 Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, and as the only Alberta MP to vote against abolishing Canada’s federal gun registry. The lawyer and former Chief of Enforcement for Environment Canada recently released a new book (which is sure to be a Christmas hit) “A Legal Guide to Aboriginal Drinking Water: A Prairie Perspective.” The video below was filmed during Duncan’s 2008 election campaign:

Danielle Smith Dave Hancock David Swann Doug Horner Ed Stelmach Janis Tarchuk Laurence Decore Lindsay Blackett Mel Knight Preston Manning Ron Liepert

premier stelmach’s problems are bigger than a cabinet shuffle.

Post author By Dave Cournoyer
Post date December 20, 2009
No Comments on premier stelmach’s problems are bigger than a cabinet shuffle.

There has been a lot of chatter about what Premier Ed Stelmach can do to reverse the Progressive Conservatives downward spiral in recent polls. According to these recent polls, the PCs now sit at 25% province-wide and in third place behind Danielle Smith‘s Wildrose Alliance and David Swann‘s Liberals in Edmonton and Calgary. Another recent poll framed Premier Stelmach as the least popular Premier in Canada with a 14% approval rating.

Sheila Pratt has written an interesting article in today’s Edmonton Journal about the PCs current misfortune and the new groups of Albertans like Reboot Alberta and Renew Alberta that have emerged. Even Preston Manning is interested in starting something new. Luckily for Premier Stelmach, he still has two years before he has to face the electorate for a second time, but what does the Premier need to do to turn his fortunes around?

Will finally ending the disastrous reigns of Children & Youth Services Minister Janis Tarchuk and Health & Wellness Minister Ron Liepert change Premier Stelmach’s position in the polls? Will moving Education Minister Dave Hancock in the midst of the School Act Review boost their numbers? Will moving Energy Minister Mel Knight to another portfolio halt the Calgary energy sector support that is flowing towards the Wildrose Alliance? Will promoting Advanced Education Minister Doug Horner to Finance Minister improve their image? Will relocating Culture & Community Spirit Minister Lindsay Blackett bring back the PC supporters who were offended over the embarrassment of Bill 44?

Will rearranging the deck chairs change the course of the ship? It is going to take something much more meaningful than a cabinet shuffle to change PC Party fortunes. As I said during an interview with Calgary Today’s Mike Blanchard this week, one of Premier Stelmach’s greatest challenges is that his government doesn’t have a defining purpose beyond governing for governing sake, and it shows.

In his recent book, Rich Vivone accurately pointed out that when Premier Ralph Klein declared Alberta to be debt free in 2004, the PCs began to drift. Aiming to defeat the deficit and debt saved the PCs from being unseated by Laurence Decore‘s Liberals in the 1993 election and it was the defining theme in Alberta politics in the 1990s and early 2000s. In many ways, Premier Klein’s 55.4% approval in 2006 reflected the drift.

Premier Stelmach is far from an amazing orator or political strategist, but one of his greatest strengths is that he is constantly underestimated by his opponents and the media. No one expected him to defeat Jim Dinning and Ted Morton in the PC leadership race or lead his party to win a 72-seat majority in the March 2008 election. The recent polls may spell demise for the near 40-year governing PCs, but with at least another two years to create a defining purpose for governing, their political and electoral opponents would be foolish to write them off just yet.

Tags Danielle Smith, Dave Hancock, David Swann, Doug Horner, Ed Stelmach, Janis Tarchuk, Laurence Decore, Lindsay Blackett, Mel Knight, Preston Manning, Ron Liepert

Avalon Roberts Calgary-Glenmore Cathay Wagantall Corey Hogan Danielle Smith George Dadamo Laurence Decore Linda Blade Linda Duncan Nathan Cullen Paul Hinman Ryan Hastman

june nomination blitz.

– June 16 is the date of the Conservative nomination in Edmonton-Strathcona. Linda Blade, Ryan Hastman, and Cathay Wagantall have spent the last month duking it out for the opportunity to run against NDP MP Linda Duncan.

– June 22 is the date of the Alberta Liberal nomination in Calgary-Glenmore that will see Corey Hogan and Avalon Roberts face off for the right to carry their party’s banner into the upcoming by-election to replace former PC MLA Ron Stevens.

– June 23 is the date of the Wild Rose Alliance nomination meeting in Calgary-Glenmore. It looks as if outgoing leader and former Cardston-Taber-Warner MLA Paul Hinman may be the only candidate to seek the nod.

– Danielle Smith: Wild Rose Renaissance? One blogger is boldly predicting that she is “the greatest threat to the Tory dynasty in Alberta since Laurence Decore.”

– Former Ontario NDP MPP, nearly interested Liberal, and now Calgary Mayoral candidate George Dadamo will soon be accepting applications for new campaign staff.

– The Alberta NDP hosted a revitalization conference in Edmonton last weekend. I am told that BC MP Nathan Cullen knocked the socks off the over 100 attendees with a rousing speech. Union orgainzer Eric Carpendale has been appointed as the NDP candidate for the upcoming Calgary-Glenmore by-election.

Alberta Liberals Alex MacDonald David Swann Laurence Decore

state of the liberal party ‘brand’ in alberta.

Post author By Dave Cournoyer
Post date February 9, 2009
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Two news articles caught my eye this weekend:

– Jeremy Loome had an interesting column in the Edmonton Sun this weekend on the state of the Liberal Party brand in Alberta.

Loome raised an excellent point about former Liberal leader and Edmonton Mayor Laurence Decore. As much as many die-hard Liberals continue to believe that Decore is an example of how their party has been successful in Alberta, many of them seem to have a hard time recollecting that even Decore wasn’t able to lead the Liberals to victory against the PCs. I understand that many long-time Liberals feel a personal connection to the Liberal Party of 1993, but it’s not hard to argue that the electoral gains made that year had more to do with Decore’s personal brand and his political connections than any party label.

– Decore-era Liberal Alex MacDonald was quoted in the Calgary Herald this weekend arguing that the Alberta Liberal Party is now in a better position than it was when Decore became its leader in 1988.

Having no personal experience with the Liberal Party of 1988, I can’t say that this isn’t the truth, but the political environment that exists today makes it difficult for me to believe that the Liberal Party of 2009 could attract the high profile leadership material like Decore.

MacDonald continued to argue that “[w]ith the right leader, and with the right strategy, and with enough support from people around the leader and in the party, it’s very possible for a great deal of momentum to be created from a base of not very much.“

‘If everything were different, things would be different’ is a hard argument to counter.

I have a lot of personal respect for current Liberal leader David Swann, but the cultural state of that political party has led me to step away from the Liberal Party and focus my energies elsewhere. With the recent news that the Liberals will be abandoning their 124th Street Edmonton Headquarters because of financial reasons, I am having an even more difficult time being convinced that the Liberal Party of 2012 will be in a position to present itself as the viable alternative that it did in 1993.

Clarification: I received an email from the Alberta Liberal Party this afternoon:

At this time there has been no decision made on the state of the “124th street headquarters,” our lease is coming up and we are in discussions with the landlord and looking at other options as well for less space for less money. We might end up moving as you state or we might not, no decision has been made.