liberals organizing in glenora.

to respond to my skeptical friend above:
– This event was in the works for a while, probably a month. Timing unrelated to Eggen.
– Probably about half the 50 in attendance were from Glenora
– Several high quality candidates are interested in running. You’ll find out all about it once the nomination gets going. Probably later this year.
– Though the association has been inactive, there remains a very solid Liberal base of support in Glenora. It is probably the easiest constituency for a Liberal candidate to raise money.
– There actually are a number of young professionals working to jump start the organization in Glenora. I suppose that is, as Dave says, “Liberals organizing in Glenora.”
– Constituency President Zack Seizmagraff stood up at the meeting and announced in no uncertain terms that the constituency association is absolutely going after a win here. Any electoral cooperation will have to take place somewhere else.
– Let’s be serious for a minute: it doesn’t matter who the NDP runs. They’ve never won Glenora, and the Liberals have won it many times. Glenora is home to many members of Edmonton’s Liberal party establishment – who do you think lives in all those nice houses? With a good candidate, some hard work, and some enthusiasm from a new generation of organizers, the ALP will remain competitive here for the next election and long into the future. Just ask Larry Booi.

Just a point of clarification – the NDP has never held a riding called ‘Glenora’ before, but it’s held many parts of the new riding that came from other ridings. In fact, David Eggen himself has represented parts of the new riding.

I am a voter in Edmonton/Glenora and I am tired of the votesplitting. The Liberals and the NDP should merge and stop fighting. I voted for the Liberals when Howard Sapers was my MLA and I voted for Larry Booi in 2004 — not the NDP — because I am a retired teacher and he fought hard for teachers. Heather Klimchuk is a nice lady and an invisible MLA. The Liberals are strong here and voters in this riding are smart. It will be a tough fight for Eggen.

Alvin,

I’d heard/read on the news that Swann was sticking by Taylor’s energy policy – although I admit I’m having trouble finding a reference to that right now.

If what you say is true, (that Swann is dumping the Taylor royalty policy) it seems a little crazy to me that the Liberals can have such wild swings on its energy policy based on one MLAs opinion. This is Alberta’s major industry, and how you approach it is one of the major fault lines in provincial politics. If a party can swing to the right on it and then swing back to the left in a six month period, who’s to say it can’t swing back to the right again next time the wind blows? Those kinds of swings, and a lack of conviction in any particular direction, is pretty much at the heart of the criticism of Liberals by many New Democrats.

Alvin, how long will you and the handful of other members of the DRP persue a course of action that neither party, Libs or NDP, have been receptive towards? Assuming your words continue to fall on uninterested ears, will the DRP’ers return to their traditional partisan teams shortly before the next election?

I hope so, because if you keep running your 3 man band about the evils of leftist vote splitting during an actual provincial campaign, all you are apt to do is get picked up by the media and convince a lot of would-be-voters for either party that they are better off not voting.

Very few people are interested in your proposed solutions, so all you are left with is a doom and gloom message. I’d like to see the DRP commit to folding their tent by 2011 if they continue to get nowhere. If you’re serious about electing progressives from either party, it would be the proper course of action.

As Dave has pointed out, a dropoff in NDP votes in Glenora helped elect a PC last time. Likewise a dropoff in Liberals votes in Calder & Bev-Clairview helped election a PC. Often having two articulate and strong candidates marginalizes the PCs. To some extent the Libs & WRA showed that in the Calgary by-election. There is no proof that an “anti-PC” movement exists and that such voters will coaless around a single progressive candidate, as your theory dreams might happen.

With all due respect to the members of the NDP and Liberal Parties of Alberta, when I read your discussions about electoral chances, I never (read never-ever) read anything about rural Alberta.

I met both Liberal and ND candidates for my constituency during the last provincial election, and they were lovely ladies, but they were both poor communicators and had nothing to say to a rural crowd.

While I am all for a much stronger opposition… and would love to see more progressive ideas in our legislature (as opposed to moving further to the right), as a rural Albertan I have no attraction to either of your parties and see zero attempt to woo a very disgruntled rural populace.

Sadly, the dissatisfaction in the country is being exploited by the WRA… and rather well. At many large events in rural communities that are organised to voice dissent of government or corporate agendas, there is a WRA organiser “beaking” right along with the crowd… and when the meeting is over, that same organiser has his membership book out.

In many cases, there is little talk of what the WRA actually stands for… other than a clarion call like “we feel your pain.”

Sadly many of us in rural Alberta self-identify as small ‘c’ conservatives, even though are basic values are largely community-focused and charitable (very small ‘l’ liberal). Yet without representation and between-election presence, neither of your parties has any profile to turn people’s minds away from their own pre-conceptions.

I believe your failure in rural Alberta has much effect on your failure in larger centers. Be it true or not (not really), many Albertans still think of themselves as inherently rural, even though their families have been in the city for more than a generation. When rural Alberta remains so big ‘C’ Conservative… yet dissatisfied with that party… and their only option to show their dissatisfaction is the WRA, support grows mightily out here… and those in the city who still see themselves as essentially as rural Albertans take a lead from that way of thinking.

Of course it’s just my observation and you can discount it easily, yet I get feeling pretty lonely out here when no one of the opposition parties ever seems to pay attention to us to spend the time and effort to be out here between elections,

Just a couple of thoughts before I get back on the tractor.

As someone who will in all likelihood be shuffled off to the the Edmonton Glenora riding from Edmonton Calder I am expect more of what already happens EXCEPT with my current MLA (PC) and the previous PC MLA and that is being a forgotten neighbourhood devoid of attention again.

It has been wonderful having the MLAs office in our neighbourhood because it has meant that our neighbourhood has received recognition. I expect that now that we are going to be amalgamated with Edmonton Glenora all parties will be equal opportunity ignorers. I would love to be proven wrong but experience and a healthy does of cynicism leads to doubt.

I have to say that vote-splitting in Edmonton-Glenora is as exciting as watching paint dry. Edmonton-Glenora will be won by the candidate who actually does the work on the ground by knocking on doors and fundraising.

Even with the door knocking and fundraising neither party will come close to matching the money that the Conservatives will raise and as a result will be at a financial disadvantage. This financial disadvantage gives the Conservatives an unfair advantage in their ability to get their message out and needs to be addressed. Which brings me to Alvin Finkel and his attempts to see a progressive government elected through taking away choices for voters by manipulating the democratic process.

Forget the tried and failed vote splitting tactics used by Paul Martin and the Liberals to maintain power while being questioned about their involvement in the sponsorship scandal. The real problem in Alberta is people are not engaged and are not voting. Quit trying to manipulate the system like the Conservatives otherwise we will be electing a government no different than the Conservatives.

I support the NDP because of people like David Eggen who actually knock on doors in his constituency and is willing to run for a party who prides itself on what it stands for and not how many times they get elected.

When he first won in Edmonton Calder he knocked on almost every door in the constituency. He also has the advantage of running for a party who wants to see coporations and unions banned from making donations. This is a more sincere way of dealing with the problems of our democratic system than playing games with constituencies in the hopes of electing a progressive government.

It all boils down to Integrity and it is surely lacking in a conversation about vote splitting that has nothing to do with electing the best person or party for the job.

I would suggest to Alvin Finkel and his DRP members that your strategy to unite the NDP and Liberals has been a failure.

The main argument I hear from the DRP is that we need to stop splitting the vote. Well what happened in the Calgary By-Election that elected Paul Hinman of the Wildrose Alliance? In this case the NDP recieved less than 200 votes and the Liberals still lost. Even with all the anti-government sentiment voters and the DRP’s influence, the constituency still went conservative.

Then we have the attempts by the DRP to persuade members and activists at the last two NDP conventions to join the liberals that also ended in failure.

You may think that your holier than thou strategy to play with a failed democratic system is the right way to go, but the majority of NDP members and activits have told you otherwise. The people of Calgary have told you otherwise.

At the end of the day we have to respect the decision of the majority of voters whether during elections or during convention. This is something the DRP seems not willing to do and would rather divide and distract the NDP membership from developing stronger policy and electing more NDP candidates.

It really disturbs me to hear Alvin Finkel mention “social phenomena” as if people’s choice to vote or who they support is a societal problem and not of choice. I guess we all need Alvin to tell us who we should vote for even if it means loosing your house because you don’t have enough disposibal income to pay for the increase in taxes that Alvin thinks we should be paying.

I think it is time to get back to reality, whether your NDP, Liberal, or Conservative members in Alberta the majority of us don’t support higher personal taxes. We are getting taken to the cleaners as it is.

In closing I would like to mention to Alvin that every morning when I wake up I am proud that I haven’t sacrificed my values in order to see a watered down political party take office that would represent the same old same old in Alberta. While DRP are talking I’ll be walking with NDP candidates helping to make real positive change in Alberta.

The problem I see with all of you folks who are married to your party and now treat it as a religion is that you sacrifice the greater good in doing so. Vote splitting on the left is a problem in many constituencies in Edmonton. Maybe strategic voting will not result in either an ND or Liberal win every time, but the problem still remains that when one side of the spectrum is split, resources are squandered and the main focus is lost. Maybe the main focus for you hardline party supporter types is “My Party Right or Wrong” but for most progressive Albertans it’s get the PC bums out. And, no, I have no statistics to back that up.
That being said, I am a Liberal member and also a member of the DRP. I am a former member of the NDP. I am not an academic; I don’t split hairs when it comes to the differences between ND ideology and Liberal ideology; I just want an end to right wing domination and a return to a more democratic Alberta.
I see the refusal to approach some form of cooperation between the NDs and the Liberals in constituencies where one or the other can clearly win, as a childish, egocentric tantrum which condemns all of us to more years under the yoke of right wing ideology. So when child services fails yet again, don’t look at the PCs as being responsible – you need to look in the mirror and say “I did this.”

Oh and to Alvin again… Alvin if the DRP have signed up over 1000 people (I suppose you’re including me because I wanted to see what your forum discussions held. Not really much of a sign-up then is it?) why can you get no action from the two parties in question? Neither the Liberals nor the NDP have vast turnouts at their conventions. If you showed up with your army of support, all as fresh party members, you could force the NDP or the Liberals to adopt just about any motion you wanted.

Oh right, the truth is that 1000 people signing up for a free web forum is not the same thing as mobilized supporters actually willing to do anything for your “cause”. Honestly, if you could even find 200 people who actually supported your non-compete theories, you could force the issue at an NDP convention. But you’ve tried that twice now and I believe you had suffered something like an 80% against defeat in both cases. Which means you managed to get somewhere between 20-40 supporters. Kinda weak.

I like how you completely dodged the heart of what I said to you previously, which was that your efforts will actually serve to undermine progressive candidates from both parties. All you do at the DRP is propogate the nonsense idea that voters aren’t in control of their own electoral fate. It’s a depressing message with little uptake and frankly isn’t it time for your group to stop?

To Neal: Weslyn Mather was very successful as the critic for Childrens’ Services. She did her work it in a collaborative way rather than a confrontational way and she succeeded in bringing help to many individual Albertans and families accross the province.

To Richard: supporters of progressive ideas and ideals are often hamstrung by the problem of vote splitting. It’s awfully facile to say that “If progressive candidates fail to get elected on their qualifications and ability to engage people, then we need to respect the will of the majority of voters.” The election of PC candidates in otherwise progressive constituencies is most often not the will of the people, but the result of circumstance.
I do not believe the Alberta Liberal Party to be a watered down version of the Federal Liberals. Furthermore, just so you do know what I believe have a look at the policies of both the NDs AND the Liberals which are, in fact, very similar. Also, I did not jump to the Liberals when the “going got tough”. I didn’t care that the going was tough when I slogged through the snow going house to house on behalf of Raj Pannu. Just so you know, I joined the Liberals because I had faith in the candidate in my constituency, and by extension, in what that particular configuration of Liberals were trying to accomplish. If you think the Alberta Liberals are the lackies of corporations and are synonymous with the PCs, please check out their list of donors.
But I think I’m wasting my breath here. You believe what you believe and that’s that. It is not to you that the DRP makes its appeal; it’s to the many people who can see common ground and who are willing to focus on common goals in order to achieve together something that cannot otherwise be accomplished from their individual solitudes.

The few times the Liberal party has been successful in this province it has depended on a coalition of moderate left of center people and right leaning people with no alternative. All those people who came to the Liberal under Decore and have left weren’t Progressive, they didn’t go to the NDP they were just Conservative voters who wanted an alternative to the Progressive Conservatives at a time when Getty was making them to embarrassed to vote their first choice.

The PC’s made a backroom deal with the Reform Party of Alberta to keep them out of legislative elections back in those days because they quite frankly would have won.

Look at places like Cardston-Taber-Warner with the rise of the Alliance the Liberal vote has cratered.

A merger of the NDP and Liberals will ultimately drive the right leaning people who still remain to other right leaning parties. Your vote totals won’t add up.

The NDP, CCF, various labor parties Canadian Labor, Dominion Labor, Labor Representation, and Socialists et al. have always represented the “left progressives” since the beginning of the province with remarkable consistency. i.e. one seat here and there but never enough to think of forming a government.

Also Albertans don’t like the Liberal brand because of the scandals, graft, free spending, entitlement and corruption that came out of the Liberal government in this province, which hasn’t been rivaled since except for today’s PC Party.

@Paual: You definitely have the right attitude in taking a stand and you should be commended for standing up for what you believe in. Maybe you could even convince David Swann to send those cheques back to the oil companies and support Brian Mason in his calls for a ban on Coporate and Union donations. That would be a step in the right direction, that would not involve the need for a coalition or new party just a commitment from the Liberal Leader to hold the Conservatives feet to the fire with the NDP in the Legislature on the issue of donations.

This would be a positive step that is based on an honest approach to fixing the our electoral system. What is important I think is that we need to take a honest approach to fixing the problem and not try to manipulate the system like the conservative have done for the last 40 years. If we do than we are no better then them and we will loose out on the opportunity to show Albertan’s that progressive governments can represent real and positive change for Albertans.

If you want to commit to making something happen choose the candidate that best reflects your values in your constituency and start knocking on doors with the candidate so that we can have an effective opposition in the legislature. It’s definitely will be easier now in the summer time than when you had to slosh through the snow for Raj Pannu.

Cheers

….support Brian Mason in his calls for a ban on Corporate and Union donations.
YES!
And I think that David Swann actually mentioned just that at the Glenora meeting.